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Multicharts and setstoploss( Stoploss * bigpointvalue) does it guarantee the SL is on the broker Server?

Order-Placement
Multicharts

#1

Hello everyone,

I have a very simple question: I’m planning to go live with a strategy on the DAX future. I have Multicharts and I in my strategies I ALWAYS set a stop loss. I want to be sure that once I enter a position the
setstoploss( Stoploss * bigpointvalue ) , according to MC guidelines, immediately send to the broker server the stop order. In other words I want to be sure that the SL is on the broker side so even if the computer, the software or the internet connection on my side crash, my SL will be executed.

Can you please confirm that setstoploss( Stoploss * bigpointvalue) assure that the SL is on the broker server when I enter a position with MC signal?

Thanks in advance!


#2

All stop-loss orders are residing on the exchange, not the broker. So if you initiate a position and set a simple stop-loss it would reside on the exchange until hit or canceled.

I think you meant to ask whether bracket orders reside on the server of the execution feed like Rithmic or CQG? For example, you have an order to buy and sell after your initial entry and need one to be canceled as soon as the other is hit.

Please be as specific as you can, and we could investigate further.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures
www.optimusfutures.com

The placement of contingent orders by you or broker, or trading advisor, such as a “stop-loss” or “stop-limit” order, will not necessarily limit your losses to the intended amounts, since market conditions may make it impossible to execute such orders.


#3

Hello Matt,

Ok basically you answer my question in the first 2 rows. My strategy doens’t use bracket orders, it simply set a stop loss and you said that it would reside on the exchange and that’s the confirmation that I was searching for ( I just would like to ALWAYS have a stoploss set when I have an open position)
My exit orders are sent from the strategy at the moment when a condition is met.

About braket orders: You made me curious so it would be interesting to know if braket orders resides on the execution feed server or at the exchange?

Thanks again!

David


split this topic #4

A post was split to a new topic: Native Orders Accepted by Major Futures Exchanges


#7

That depends on the data feed you use. In this case, since you use Multicharts, it could be either CQG or Rithmic. We will get back to you on how each one of them works once we investigate it.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures
www.optimusfutures.com


#8

On SierraChart it is the case that CQG does not have bracket order functionality only OCO functionality that is server-side.

Source: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/CQGTrading.php#Included

I think some of this lingo confuses people and the interplay between what orders are native to the exchanges are what orders are synthetic and held on a trader’s computer isn’t clear. A “bracket” order is the whole enchilada i.e. the initiating entry order and the automatically fired stop-loss and profit target (sent OCO i.e one cancels the other) once the entry order is filled. If the ES is trading at 2806.00 and I want to buy if it goes lower to 2804.00 and automatically fire off a profit target at 2810.00 and a stop-loss at 2800.00 (sent OCO) the instant I am filled at 2804.00, then a “native” order to buy limit at 2804.00 exists at the CME.

The “logic” to fire off the profit and stop-loss resides on my PC. So if my PC blows up then no profit target and no stop-loss will fire off once the entry order at 2804.00 is filled. I’ll have a naked long position. That’s because there isn’t any bracket order logic at Sierra/CQG. Suppose my PC doesn’t blow up and the fill at 2804.00 occurs? Sierra will fire off the OCO which will be two stand-alone orders with the OCO logic now being held on CQG servers.

Confused? You will be if you use synthetic orders and don’t use native exchange-held orders for your profit and stop-loss (e.g. MIT for profit or volume-based stop losses). The starting point for newer traders is to understand which orders actually, physically, reside at the exchange. Then, from there, understand where the logic exists to control what happens once they get filled. To say that orders “reside” on an execution provider’s servers isn’t true. It’s computer code that resides there. Sierra are touting their new service with TT as having bracket and OCO logic be server-side. I’m not so sure that having the bracket logic reside there is a good thing. I saw some quirks when it was done with CTS. With CQG it is flawless.

Unless you are worried about your computer blowing up before a fill occurs then I’m not sure that bracket order logic being server side is that important. Server side OCO logic is the more important of the two in my opinion.


#9

@simtrader I appreciate the lengthy explanation. Essentially, yes with CQG Bracket Orders do not reside on CQG until the limit order is filled. So far our experience has been (with CQG) that when one order is filled, the other is canceled. Although your explanation is using Sierra, we assume the same is true for CQG with Multicharts where the OCO will kick in only when the limit is filled. The OP is a Multicharts user.

Having said that, there are those who insist on Bracket Server Side OCOs when the entire bracket sits on the server and not on a personal computer. There could be an instance of a drop on the internet, and then you have no protection if the bracket did not go in. Clearly, for those who are afraid of this one-off event, it is a source of comfort. Having said that, you raised a good point. Bracket Server Side OCOs are tricky and need to be implemented right, and clearly, this is not always the case. Further, the server the OCO resides on could fail. Then what? Having a trade-desk number is always a great source.
The only true thing you can rely on is native exchange orders.

As an FYI, some of our users who use the RIthmic feed, use R Trader for the server bracket OCOs while using the Rithmic feed to also fuel the charts of their application. We need to check whether the R API+ by Rithmic does provide bracket server side OCOs on Multicharts because on Sierra it does not.

Matt Z
Optimus Futures
www.optimusfutures.com


#10

It’s good that Optimus is on top of these issues to help explain them, so traders can make an informed decision. Life, like trading, is risky. The key is taking informed risks. When Sierra had server-side bracket functionality with CTS they held the bracket functionality on their own servers just like they do with the new TT service. But I saw quirks with it, around the issue of partial fills. It wasn’t always consistent with auto-firing the correct number of contracts for profit/stop-loss based on the fill. The end result was an exposed position i.e. the very risk it was supposed to eliminate was sometimes created by it. Yet that same bracket functionality using the same software works flawlessly on my PC with partial fills. I don’t know why. It gets into a philosophical question of whether they are issues when software vendors move into the execution arena. Maybe. Maybe not. Some programmers smarter than me can answer that. But a real world question kicks into play. I don’t walk away from my desk with a pending entry order. If my computer blew up I’d call the trade desk. Once filled the server side OCO works fine. Peace of mind can be a fickle thing. You think you reduce one risk only to create another. I appreciate the conversations with Optimus around these issues.