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Question about Break Even Stops On R-Trader Pro


#1

In the Configure Brackets options under Break Even Stops, it states as follows in red:

Note: Stop Orders rejected by the exchange will be resubmitted as market orders

However, in live trading, when there have been instances where the Stop Order was rejected to due to high market volatility at the time of trade entry, the Stop Order was not resubmitted as stated above.This is quite troubling as my trade was left naked and were it not for the fact that I checked the computer, I could have sustained a major loss. Has anyone experienced this before or know how this can be fixed?


#2

Hello @newbie, and thank you for your question. It is very hard to guess what happened during the time that you have actually submitted the order, however, and we would need to investigate the specific order you refer to. Please submit details to support@optimusfutures.com

Also, during volatile times if you are a tick trader, you could have placed your stop below the stop in the case of a Buy-Stop or above the market in case of a Sell-Stop. We have seen these rejections before occurring because the market is extremely volatile. We have seen these human errors occur in the past.

Also, we have seen situations that due to gaps, the market actually turned from a Stop Order to a Limit Order. For example: let’s say you are long, and the ES market gaps 50 full points down. In those instances, the market is way below the stops, and your order from a Sell-Stop could turn to a Sell-Limit. In those instances, you may want to exit the markets right away. Again, these are extreme instances, but you should be aware of them.

We typically do not hear of such instances with Rithmic, but we would also invite @Rithmic to make comments on the rules associated with their Bracket Orders.

Thank you,
Matt Z
Optimus Futures
www.optimusfutures.com
800 771 6748 Local 561 367 8686

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of futures results. The placement of contingent orders by you or broker, or trading advisor, such as a “stop-loss” or “stop-limit” order, will not necessarily limit your losses to the intended amounts, since market conditions may make it impossible to execute such orders.


#4

@newbie, although as @Mod-MattZ pointed out, stops could become limit orders in case of rare severe price gaps or by mistake it could have been placed as the buy/sell Stop on the wrong side of the market or intended position.

But, to your credit, a trader who worries about stops and places importance on risk management is “light years ahead” of their competition and some traders who are in the markets for the rush of winning only and don’t use bracket / stop orders and rely solely on their intuition. Most of the time the stop is your oxygen.

Mechanical stops, although occasionally do require some sort of manual intervention are one of the best long term insurances we have.

Just wanted to give you a thumb up @newbie :slight_smile:

Regards,

  • P11

#5

Thank you Matt Z and P11 for your replies.

I am well aware of the market conditions you have rightly pointed out that can result in the rejection of a Stop Loss order. My problem is with the claim made that in such cases, the Stop Order will be resubmitted as a market order (to guarantee that the open trade is closed being the logic, I believe). Is this claim true or not? This is the all-important question that determines how I will go about managing my trades. I was hoping you could shed some light on this particular claim as it is one of the primary reasons I chose R-Trader Pro to begin with.


#6

You are very welcome. I would not consider anything a claim because there are futures trading software functionalities, and at the same time exchange procedures with orders. As I suggested above, I have invited @Rithmic to come and comment on the implementation of their Bracket orders.

You chose a good software, and it is very fast to execute on. Let’s see what Rithmic says. So far they have been very receptive to customer’s questions on our community site.

Thank you,
Matt Zimberg
Optimus Futures

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.


#7

@newbie,
Very valid point. I would suggest to pull your detailed trades (if live orders were placed), confirmations and
cancel/modify/rejection logs. Then analyze it very closely and break it down by time of order placement and validate it with the market data moves and finally compare with the R-Trader logs. It always pays off to save, copy/paste/extract or screenshot your situation for further analysis.

I would follow @Mod-MattZ ’ suggestion and send the details to support@optimus for further analysis.
Once resolved, I would love to learn what happened as I will also consider using R-Trader soon.

As they say: “The devil is in the details”.

Thanks for posting.

Regards,

  • P11

#8

Please send and e-mail to support@rithmic.com indicating your user id, the date of the order and the Rithmic order number and we will research it.